Nobody Cares Until You Do (with Robert Hunt)

[Dana] (00:01)
Welcome friends, whether you’re out on a walk, running errands, or relaxing at home, it’s wonderful to connect with you. Joining us today is Robert Hunt. Now Robert is called the Accountability Guy, and he is the co-author of the book, “Nobody Cares Until You Do.” He is a business owner in the Dallas-Fort Worth area and helps leaders remove the things that keep them from being their best. Robert, welcome to Phoenix and Flame. This is awesome. Now you’re also an executive coach, you run CEO groups in DFW, and you’ve done that since 2013.

[Robert] (00:38)
Thank you so much. Yes, and I love doing it, it’s my joy.

[Dana] (00:52)
You know, when I was looking over your bio and watching your video and all the things, because I’m rather picky about who I allow to come on Phoenix and Flame, I was really wondering what drew you to accountability. I love that topic, I’m a huge fan of people being accountable…

[Robert] (01:10)
Hmm.

[Dana] (01:18)
…and I would really like to hear your story. Just start wherever is comfortable for you and we’ll kind of wind our way around together.

[Robert] (01:25)
Well, I’ve spent the last 11 years running these CEO peer groups and spending time with business owners and leaders who carry a big burden. And I’ve seen those who do it well, and they’re the ones who are truly accountable. And I’ve seen others who don’t do it so well, and they’re not accountable, and I’ve watched that consistently over the years. And then in 2019, my beautiful wife Cathy and I went through a time of really awakening in our own journey, and realizing that we were playing a victim in our own lives, and that we had gotten to a point where we were angry at God and the world and the economy and our clients and everybody, but we weren’t owning it. This is where we had our own problems. We owed $90,000 in debt, and that didn’t include the house or the cars. And we just kept saying, well, God, when are you gonna bless us, when are you gonna bless this business? And he’s like, dude, I gave you so much money, what’d you do with it all? And so…

[Dana] (02:19)
Mm.

[Robert] (02:21)
…we had to come to this place where we said, look, nobody cares if we’re broke and unhappy in our marriage and frustrated with our finances and our business until we care enough to do something about it. So we did. We sold our house and we took the money out of the equity and paid off all of our debt and started over. And we live here in this wonderful home that we rent, and we decided to own our journey and not be blaming or making excuses or saying we can’t or waiting and hoping. We were going to own it. And that’s why we wrote the book, because we just saw the power and freedom that comes from a life of true accountability.

[Dana] (02:59)
I love that, and a hundred percent behind that. I’ve seen it so many times being a psychotherapist, when I’m talking to my patients, it’s like, you can’t change what you don’t own. But I’m wondering from your perspective and your experience, what do you feel like are some of the major obstacles that people have, why they tend to hang on to the victim mentality?

[Robert] (03:10)
Mmm.

[Dana] (03:26)
When you work with people and you’re trying to help them move into that space of accountability, what have you seen that seems to trip them up and keep them from really moving into that place?

[Robert] (03:40)
Well, no one can hold anyone else accountable, it’s only something you can do for yourself. Even you as a counselor who meets with someone, it’s up to them to make the decision to do it, you can ask them, they could lie to you, you can’t make anybody. And so I think the reason people stay in the victim role is, one, they’re comfortable with it, that’s all they’ve known for their whole life. We grow up this way, this is what’s ingrained from our youth, to have an excuse for why you didn’t do something, to blame something when something doesn’t work…

[Dana] (03:50)
Yes.

[Robert] (04:09)
…or to just say, I can’t do that. It’s not my comfort zone, which is another word for fear. And I think we’re just used to that lifestyle, and especially with social media, where I can just say or do whatever I want and get away with it, we’ve come to a place in our lives where we don’t feel like our actions have consequences. So all those things, besides comfort and not being aware of it, hold us back. I didn’t realize, I didn’t think I was being a victim, I owned my own company, I’ve been a business owner since 2009, so I know what it’s like to run your own business. But I was doing things that truly were keeping me as a victim, I just didn’t see it that way, I thought I was doing the right things, I was being responsible, which is different than being accountable. Responsible is doing something, accountable is owning it and doing the thing. If I go to see you as a counselor, that’s being responsible, I have issues. But if I lie to you, or if I don’t own the conversation to be transparent and honest, and then I don’t take it and go home and work on it and apply it to my life, that’s on me. So me being responsible to do something to fix my marriage, but then stopping there and not doing anything beyond, or applying it, is not accountable. And too many people in our world are doing something, but they’re not doing the thing. It’s the thing where you own it, and that’s where accountability makes a difference, because you simply own it.

[Dana] (05:33)
Mm-hmm. I was thinking about the title of your book, and I’ve had some interesting experiences of my own along the way, and it says “nobody cares until you do.” I got thinking about that, and how this actually plays out when someone is in some kind of a cycle and they’re not being accountable. Very rarely are they the only ones experiencing that. It seems like usually there’s a plethora of flotsam and jetsam around them…

[Robert] (06:05)
Yeah, the ripple effect. Yeah.

[Dana] (06:32)
…the ripple effect of their lack of accountability, that is kind of like slapping everyone around them, or pulling people around them into this riptide, right? And so it seems like everyone around them cares, but they don’t. For example, I can remember having people call…

[Robert] (06:32)
Eh.

[Dana] (06:54)
…me and say, Dana, I would like for you to see my husband, or I would like for you to see my adult child. And I’m like, really, why is that? And they would tell me all the problems, all the things that their husband or their adult child is doing, and I would say, well, that sounds interesting, and it does sound like they need some help. Why am I talking to you instead of talking to them?

[Robert] (07:49)
Yeah. We didn’t write the phrase for you to say to other people, we wrote the phrase for you to say to you. Because in that case, yes, the spouse cares about the other spouse and wants them to get better. But until the person who has the issue cares, nothing will get done. I can’t be accountable for you, I can’t be responsible for you, I can’t be honest and loving and kind for you. And so when people see other things and they tell you about it, you have a decision to make: am I going to own that and be a part of it, or am I going to make excuses and blame and say I can’t, or just wait and hope it gets better? Which are the four things that people do that keep them as a victim. But until they get to that place in their life where they go, wait, nobody cares, not until I care enough to do something about it, that is the turning point in our lives where we truly are accountable for something.

[Dana] (07:49)
I love what you’re saying, and it kind of evokes a thought which happens to me almost all the time, because I’m a big boundary person, I’m known as the queen of boundaries, I have a long story about that, and I see it a lot in my practice. And when you say they’re not going to do anything about it until they care, I’ve noticed sometimes that we get pulled into a codependent pattern with people who are doing something in their life that they’re not taking accountability for, whatever reason, fill in the blank. And we get pulled into this codependency, this enabling thing. And so they don’t have to care because we’re enabling them, because we’re being codependent in that dysfunctional pattern. But when we set those healthier boundaries and we cause the consequences to fall into their yard instead of our yard…

[Robert] (08:20)
Mm.

[Dana] (08:44)
…then that kind of helps them begin to start caring.

[Robert] (08:47)
Yeah, if you can. Sadly, like we talked about that ripple effect, a lot of times when you’re in denial of these things, the effect is harder on everyone else, because you’ve just kind of gotten to the zone where you’re oblivious to it, this is just how you roll. It’s like the frog in the water that gets slowly turned up until it cooks itself, and the water never, the frog never jumps out. But everyone else is watching the water splash over the pot as it’s boiling. And so I think, again, back to the core point, when you realize that your actions have consequences, that is the beginning of accountability. And we could look at everything in our lives and say, how was your job, did you lose your job, I had a jerk boss, everyone has a jerk boss, and that’s just kind of the nature of bosses, sadly. I mean, really sadly, I work with business owners to help them create an environment where people aren’t jerk bosses, but it’s really rare that leaders will take the kind of time and effort to step back and really evaluate their leadership and their teams and make those kinds of changes. Most of the time we’re just trying to get stuff done. And so you can be blaming people and making excuses for your whole life, forever, and everyone else is doing it, so no one ever points it out, they just go, yeah, it’s so sad you have a jerk boss, how come every company you go to has a jerk boss? Oh, that’s interesting.

[Dana] (09:49)
Mm-hmm. Isn’t that curious?

[Robert] (10:08)
…and a jerk wife and jerk kids. My wife taught me this expression that her dad told her when she was younger: if it’s 10:30 in the morning and you’ve already run into three assholes, they’re not the asshole. And I thought, that’s brilliant, it’s crude, but it’s brilliant. And I started looking at days where I’ve been somewhere and, this guy pisses me off, this guy cut me off in traffic, the guy at the Starbucks is rude, and wait, it’s me. But you have to be aware of yourself to realize, how can everyone be a jerk today? Not everyone can be a jerk today, it’s you, baby, it’s you. That’s that self-awareness where you go, okay, I need to sit down and spend time with the Lord, because right now my heart is angry and I’m looking at the world in bitterness. The whole world can’t be broken. And you meet these people all the time where, how’s it going, oh, really tired, works really hard, oh, those kids, they never have anything positive to say. That’s a warning sign, that’s a warning sign of someone who does not own it, everything happens to them, therefore they’re miserable. Not that they did anything wrong, I just showed up at work late and everybody’s pissed off, well, you showed up at work late, that’s part of the reason they’re mad at you. So I don’t think we’re even aware anymore that our actions have consequences. That’s part of…

[Dana] (11:27)
I’ve noticed that as well. It seems to be almost an epidemic these days with this lack of self-awareness. What do you feel like is one of the major factors in either people getting to the place where they’re willing to be self-aware, or on the opposite side, what do you think is preventing that self-awareness?

[Robert] (11:49)
Well, selfishness really, because I like my world my way, and it makes sense to me, why wouldn’t everyone do it this way? So selfishly, you have your own version of the world and everyone should join you in your version, and when they don’t, they’re being rude and they’re being selfish on their side. So I think coming at it with a humble spirit, like Christ did, where he looked at people with compassion, I find myself easily irritated with the world around me, how can this guy cut me off, how come this guy’s this, it’s very easy to pick at things. But when I realize how much I suck in life, that I make mistakes, that I’m rude, that I’m impatient, and I focus more on me, it changes the way I see the world. And so out of a desire to want to see the world with love and kindness like our Savior does, I have to review me on a regular basis. So I started journaling last year, I’d never done that, I always made fun of it. I’m 61, I started journaling, happy birthday, you’re 60, start journaling. And I see these words, and I’m like, wow, that’s in your brain? Out of the heart, out of the mind, spews all the things that are truly in there, and out of our mouth, because it’s what’s in my heart. So I need to get them out of my heart, out of my head, and onto a piece of paper and go, oh, that’s ridiculous, why are you saying that? Because being self-aware is just really a reflection of the world around us put through the mirror that I tend to look at first.

[Dana] (12:48)
Hahaha.

[Robert] (13:14)
So I think it’s taking the time to be real about yourself. When you really look in the light of how messed up you are, it’s easy to give grace to other people, to be patient with people. I think that’s just self-awareness, because you’re looking at the mirror.

[Dana] (13:29)
I like that, and it really kind of corroborates some of the things that I end up sharing with my patients about boundaries. I talk about yards, our yard versus someone else’s yard, and we’re responsible for what’s in our yard, which is our thoughts, feelings and actions, and what’s on the other side of the fence is someone else’s thoughts, feelings and actions, and they are responsible for those things. But it’s also neat when we can walk out into our yard and know that we’re fallible, we’re going to make mistakes, we make mistakes every single day, and expect that and accept that, and go into our yard and pick it up and say, I did this. And we can walk across our yard to the fence line, to our neighbor, whoever that neighbor might be, a friend, family member, coworker, fill in the blank, and say, the other day I really spoke rudely to you, I own that, and I’m sorry. And when we accept our fallibility, which I feel like is…

[Robert] (13:56)
Hmm.

[Dana] (14:25)
…from what you were mentioning also happens because of the faith journey, because of that grace and understanding. So I was wondering too, in your journey with this, and your passion for it, and seeing it play out with the business owners and in your own life, what are some different ways that you feel like your faith has helped you, maybe given you wisdom, discernment, understanding, ability, anything at all with your journey in this accountability lane?

[Robert] (14:58)
I think my faith is who I am. Someone asked me, how do you bring your faith to work? And I said, well, how do you leave it at home? I don’t get that. I don’t go to work and pretend that I’m not married, or that I don’t have kids, or that I don’t like the Cowboys. That’s just, you just be who you are. I don’t understand the turning-off part of who you are. But I would say the more that I’ve grown to really understand who Jesus is and what he means in my life, and what he’s done in my life and who I am in relationship to God, the more it humbles me, the more I’m thankful, because I realized that God loved me enough to die for me, and that he’s given me the spirit of God that lives inside of me. So I can be a representation of God through the business world, or anywhere, the grocery store, my neighbors, wherever, in my yard, I can do that. But I don’t have to turn it on or turn it off, I just leave it going. And I think that if you are true to who you are in Christ, it’s just always there. There’s never a time I’m not married to Cathy, there’s never a time I’m not Lauren and James’s daddy, I’m always going to be that dude. So I think the core to that is just being true to who you are. And if you’re aware of the grace you’ve been given and the life you’ve been given and the power of God inside of you, it tempers the arrogance and ego and selfishness that really wants to creep up and become a bigger part of our journey. But we’ve been given victory over that, again, we’re not victims, we are victorious in Christ, and we’re victorious in this life, he’s overcome this world so we can overcome it too. But we as Christians are probably the biggest group of whiners in the world. We’ve been given eternal life, forgiveness of sins, the spirit of God lives inside of us, we have every resource you could ever imagine to grow and strengthen our faith, and all we do is complain about the music at church, the parking, the kinds of seats, what the sermon, I mean, we just whine and whine. And I know it must make God so sad, but it frustrates me to have people say they want nothing to do with Christians, and they say it’s because of all the Christians they know, that’s just wrong, we’re doing it wrong, baby. I gotta get off my soapbox there, sorry.

[Dana] (17:17)
No, you’re perfectly fine. I did want to ask you, once in a while I run into a person who’s describing a situation where it feels like they are just embattled with shame. It’s almost as if they’re in water and it’s right up under their nose, and they have gone through so much in their life, trauma or whatever the case may be, that they feel ashamed of themselves. And so they do a lot of blame-shifting, they feel like if they accept one more responsibility for one more thing done wrong, then they’re going to go under the water, they’re going to drown in all of the shame and that belief that they have. And sometimes that causes a lot of blame-shifting, and I was kind of wondering how that plays into accountability, and your experience with the people that you’ve dealt with, have you run into situations where you feel like they were trying to do the things, but there was shame there, or something that kept causing them to blame-shift and not want to be accountable, because they think, I can’t be the bad guy one more time, I can’t be the idiot one more time…

[Robert] (18:36)
Well, most of my clients are very ego-driven leaders, who don’t do anything wrong in general, which is cool, because that’s the kind of confidence you need to be able to start your own business and survive all the beat-down that goes on as a business owner. They’re not arrogant jerks, they just are so confident in themselves that most of the problems aren’t theirs, even if they were theirs. So I don’t see them having that problem. I think the difference is we need to understand the difference of our identity versus our role.

[Dana] (18:47)
Mm.

[Robert] (19:11)
So our identity is, you were born a 10, and you will die a 10, on a scale of one to 10. Maybe we have to clarify that: on a scale of one to 10, you were born a 10 and you will die a 10. You are perfectly, fearfully, wonderfully made in the image of God, whether you believe in God or not, God created you, and you are perfectly a 10. Now the role that you play, you may suck as an employee, you may struggle as a spouse, you may struggle as a parent, that’s the role you play. But no role will ever be any higher than the identity you give yourself as a human. So if you think you’re at best a five, you’ll never be anything higher than a five in whatever role you play. And the way that you get past the shame is to realize we all suck at the job we do, we’re learning, it’s a work in progress. Nobody is born with all the knowledge to be a good mom or dad, husband or wife, friend, everything is a learning experience and we learn by experience. So your expectations are unfair to you if you think you’re never gonna make a mistake or blow it. So change the shame to just this learning curve, make it a process of getting better. And it’s not that you suck as a human, it’s that you struggle as a parent or you struggle as a spouse. Keep working on that, because you’re already a 10. Every one of those categories can move up from a four, a three, a five, a six, to a 10. You’re on this journey towards making it better and better until the day you’re in the presence of God for all eternity. So the shame should be replaced with the awareness that this is a learning curve and mistakes will happen. That’s part of refining the role you play, but you’re already a 10, and you should be happy about that.

[Dana] (20:52)
Nice. It’d be nice if more people believed that about themselves, that they were a 10, they’re born a 10 and they’re going to die a 10. So I’m wondering, on a practical level, when you’re working with people, what are the steps? Say they recognize, they’re listening to you and their eyes are beginning to open, and they’re beginning to understand, okay, I do seem to have some accountability issues, I do seem to blame other people a lot, and other people tell me that I do this, and they’re beginning to see this and they’re beginning to be willing to see that about themselves. What are some of the practical steps they would take, if those individuals were listening now to this podcast and thinking, I think Robert’s talking about me, I feel like that’s me, I’m that jerk, I run into ten assholes by, and I think that might be me, if a listener is thinking that might be me, what are some practical steps that you could share with them, okay, what do they do now?

[Robert] (22:04)
Yeah. The first step is to become aware. In most cases, people are completely unaware of what level of accountability is required in the pursuit of the life they really want. We want people to pursue the life they really want. So we provided this satisfaction assessment, it’s in our book, but it’s also on our website, you can do it for free, you don’t have to give us your information or anything. Go to NobodyCaresBook.com and take the satisfaction assessment and score where you are in your life. If you don’t like your marriage, write it down. If you don’t like your health, write it down. If you don’t like your job or your team or your employees or whatever, write it all down. And then step back and look at it and go, okay, now why, why don’t you like those things, why are you not satisfied? And if you blame, make excuses, say you can’t, or wait and hope for any of those categories, you are playing a victim and you’re not being accountable. So let’s say I look, and I go, well, I’m 35 pounds overweight, okay, that’s my decision, I own that. Oh, I’m 62, my body doesn’t work like it used to. Well, donuts still work like they did when you were 30. So if you keep eating donuts like you did when you were 30, you’re gonna be 35 pounds overweight. So it’s not like the donuts sneaked into my mouth, I went to a store and bought it and brought it home, so whose fault is that? So when we start to really look at the blame, excuse, and “we can’t” behavior, and say, well maybe you can’t, maybe you can’t afford it, could you do a walk around the block, that’s really cold, could you do a walk in place? My mom had restless leg syndrome and she’d do this for 15 minutes every morning because she had restless leg. I could do pushups on the carpet, I can sit up and sit down. Whatever you can do, you can do something, just don’t say “can’t,” say “I won’t.” And when you say “won’t,” you realize, well, then why not? So all these things that we do that we’re so comfortable with…

[Dana] (23:46)
Mm.

[Robert] (23:52)
We declare it, we score it, and then we look at the things that trap us, and then we just say, stop. Nobody cares. You want to be broke, be broke. You want a horrible marriage, have a horrible marriage. But if you don’t want it, you’ve got to own it and do something about it. Then the whole rest of the book tells you how to do that. Acknowledge the reality, embrace the suck, find a solution, and make it happen. And that’s exactly what Cathy and I did. We owed $90,000 in debt in 2019, not including our house or cars, and we were miserable, and we were angry at God and each other and the economy and everything. And we just said, 2019, this is stupid, I can’t live like this anymore, we’ve got to own this, we’ve got to fix this. And so we sold our house at the end of 2019, we put it up on the market and we sold it in March of 2020. And we took all the money from the house’s equity, paid off all of our debt, and we were debt-free when COVID shut down the world in March of 2020. We moved into this house where we live today, four years later, and we rented. And we took that money, paid everything off, and the peace that we had was unbelievable. I had forgotten what peace felt like, because year after year of living in anxiety and stress, how am I going to pay my bills, oh gosh, if I lose one customer I’m screwed, just the anxiety of every day, if I work all day long I’m still in debt, it was horrible. But it wasn’t until it was gone that I realized how much weight I’d been carrying. Then with a clear mind, we decided, let’s go look at the rest of our lives and see what else we don’t like. We need to go to counseling together and work through some issues that had been festering for a few years, and then we did that. And then we looked at our health, and I was 265, I’m like the fattest I’ve ever been, okay, well, why don’t I just stop having bourbon and chips every night, why don’t I just put it down and have a Sprite and go to bed early and not snack till 11 o’clock at night. All these things that you could do, you change everything you want to change, but you get the freedom and the clarity when you first take the first thing off your back, and you go, I can conquer this, I can do this. And we began this journey of owning it. And that’s what we wrote the book about, we wanted to show you where the traps are, we wanted to teach you the tools to press play on, because every single piece of your life, you can own it, you have the power to do something about it.

[Dana] (26:12)
I like the practical steps you’re providing, and also it seems like you gave several examples of people being able to take small bites, because like you said, when you gave the example of someone, well, I’m overweight, well, can you maybe go out and take a walk, well, it’s cold outside, well, can you, and it’s like, there’s smaller and smaller, because sometimes, if we’re being brutally honest, Robert, sometimes the thought of going to the gym is like, I know I need to do that, but I’m not going to, I don’t want to, I’m not going, I need to but I’m not going, I don’t want to. And so, but okay, well, we can’t, if you don’t want to go to the gym, you don’t want to be around other people, you don’t want to try to find some kind of gym clothes to put on, can you do a YouTube video at your house? You don’t even have to leave the house or something, because I think that really is key, and I heard you mentioning that in several examples of…

[Robert] (26:56)
Right.

[Dana] (27:08)
…take whatever smallest bite you need to, to get started. If you just need to stand up like your mom did and walk in place for 10 minutes or 15 minutes, if that’s what you need to do to get started, then do that, do something small.

[Robert] (27:12)
Yeah, it’s when you say “can’t,” when you say “I can’t,” you’re done. Oh, I can’t, it’s like, legally I can’t do this, a cop will come and arrest me if I do this, so you say “I can’t,” everyone goes, oh, bless your heart, okay, well, I guess you’re done. But if you say “I won’t,” then they go, well, why not? Well, I don’t want to go to the gym. Why? You said you don’t like your health. Do you want to go pay for medical bills to fix whatever health problem you’re creating? Do you want to be diabetic and have to take shots? Do you want to have high blood pressure medicine? The cost of being unhealthy is really expensive, and all the food I eat and drink costs a lot of money. So if I’m going to eat healthy, it’s going to cost me less, because I’m not going out to dinner having a $400 dinner somewhere with an $80 bottle of wine, a big fat steak and a big potato and dessert. So all these things that we cut back, and we started doing, we’re saving a ton of money. So the ripple effect of owning the decision to be healthier means I don’t go to the doctor as much, I don’t pay for a bunch of expensive medicine, I don’t spend…

[Dana] (27:54)
Mm-hmm.

[Robert] (28:19)
…money on booze and expensive meals. And I don’t have to go buy new clothes that I can’t fit into in my closet. I have three tiers of fat clothes, this is my current fat, that’s the old fat, that’s a way-long, it’s never-gonna-hit fat. All these different levels of our closet’s so full that we can’t get into it, but I can only wear the same six shirts because I refuse to go buy any more clothes, I’ve already got two tiers of fat clothes waiting for me to get to. This is all about logic, it’s all connected, one thing feeds another. When we got out of debt, we were willing to go have an awkward conversation about our marriage. We were willing to go and deal with the fact that we’d become angry at God, and to ask for forgiveness and repent of the arrogance of looking at God and going, you need to bless me with money, that’s what you give me money for. And he’s like, you’re done, I give you money all the time and you blow it, I’m not giving you more money. But when we took ownership for that, he poured out sick blessings on my business. My business doubled in 2020, when the whole world was shutting down, my business doubled, I get paid to have meetings, and nobody was coming to meetings, and I grew like crazy. It’s just this weird hand of God, and then the next year it doubled again. So I went from nine clients at the end of 2019, to 21 the next year, to 43 in the second year. And I truly believe that’s because of our obedience to God, that he poured out those crazy blessings. So I’ve seen it in my life, I’ve modeled it, I’ve learned it, I’ve practiced it, and I’ve seen the power and freedom that comes from really truly owning all your junk.

[Dana] (29:47)
I love it, I love it. It is very clearly, you’re passionate about this, you’ve walked it, you’re helping other people try to come alongside, which is amazing. So I know my listeners are thinking, this is awesome, I really, I’m aligning, I’m resonating with what Robert is saying, I feel like I need to know more about what he’s talking about. So what website, you mentioned NobodyCaresBook.com for the assessment, where do you want the listeners to go to get more information about you?

[Robert] (30:21)
Yeah, if you’re wanting to know about me and the peer groups and executive coaching I do, you can go to REFDallas.com. That’s my business. But in your area, they’re probably not wanting to hire me, because they’re in another state. I do bring this workshop anywhere in the world where people want to have the Nobody Cares workshop, we’re glad to do that. So you can go there and learn about my business. But if you’re interested in what the book could do for you, go to NobodyCaresBook.com. And actually, for your show, I created a website called NobodyCaresPod.com, and if they’ll go in there and fill out the contact form and use the code word Phoenix, I will mail a copy of my book to them for free, to the first two people who fill out that form. Because if you really want the book and you don’t have the money to pay for it, I’d be glad to mail you a copy, if you’re willing to read it and let it change your life. I’d be honored to send you a copy of the book.

[Dana] (31:19)
Okay, wonderful, I will put that in the show notes, that’s very generous of you, thank you, I’m sure my listeners will love that. Thank you so much, Robert, for your experience and your passion and your time and your knowledge and everything, coming and sharing that with me and my listeners this morning, I appreciate it so, so, so much.

[Robert] (31:25)
You bet, thank you so much for letting me be here, I appreciate it.

[Dana] (31:46)
This is awesome. Listeners, know unequivocally that you have heard multiple things said today from Robert about accountability. And I want you to take this episode, take this podcast episode, copy and paste the link in text and email, put it on your favorite social media platform, so that we can grow our Phoenix and Flame community, so we can show people you’re not alone, we’re in this together. Thank you so much for listening, I hope your day so far has been great, and I hope the rest of it is going to be fantastic. I’m Dana on Phoenix and Flame.