Trusting Your Intuition in Business (Winnie Rodgers)

[Dana] (00:01)
Welcome friends, whether you’re out on a walk, running errands, or relaxing at home, it’s wonderful to connect with you. Joining us today is Winnie Rodgers. Now, Winnie is a dynamic real estate expert and marketing strategist with a fiery passion for teaching. With over two decades of experience in digital and print marketing combined, with her success as a top real estate agent in Charleston, South Carolina, Winnie brings a unique edge to everything that she does. Winnie, welcome to Phoenix and Flame.

[Winnie] (00:42)
Thank you for having me, Dana, I appreciate it.

[Dana] (00:45)
This is wonderful. Guys, Winnie and I were talking earlier before the podcast started, and I said, I wish I’d hit record. I always do that, I start talking to my guests, trying to create some comfort and connection before we start recording, and then we say all these things and I’m like, wait, wait, wait, I want to record everything that we’re saying. So really, we were talking about how this podcast Phoenix and Flame…

[Winnie] (01:03)
You’re like, that’s a good one.

[Dana] (01:13)
…the tagline is pushing through and transforming even when you feel like a pile of ash. And we’ve had so many absolutely wonderful guests on the podcast who’ve done amazing things, but we’re interested also in the backstory. I love to hear biographies, I love to read biographies, finding out, these people that we see that have accomplished so many things, but then with the biographies, you find out from the backstory, what did they go through, what was hard for them, what were their failures, how did they come through? That’s the essence of Phoenix and Flame. It’s like, what was the fire, what was it that just burnt you down to ash, what did it feel like to sit in that ash pile not knowing if you were going to rise or not, and then what helped you rise into the phoenix? And those stories, I think, are very fascinating. So, Winnie, when you think about all of that, you had shared with me at some point about experiencing some turmoil in your life because you weren’t really paying much attention to your intuition.

[About three minutes of audio-dropout troubleshooting removed here. Winnie’s headphones and phone briefly knocked out the connection; Dana said on air she’d edit the interruption out (“I can edit this part out… I’m going to edit all this part out”), and the cut portion is pure technical back-and-forth (can-you-hear-me, Do Not Disturb settings, switching to a laptop) with no story content. Winnie confirms at the end of it that she missed Dana’s spoken intro, which is why Dana recaps it below.]

[Dana] (04:36)
Okay, then basically I was just telling the listeners what we had talked about beforehand, about pushing through and transforming even when you feel like a pile of ash, and I like my guests to talk about all the stuff we talked about beforehand, about what was the fire in your life that created that issue for you, and what did it feel like to sit in that pile of ash not knowing if you’re going to get out of it, and then…

[Winnie] (04:58)
Yeah.

[Dana] (05:05)
…rising like the phoenix, in that whole process. So basically I was just explaining to the listeners what we had talked about before, and then I said, and then we’ll pick this up, and then I said: you had shared with me before about experiencing turmoil in your life where you didn’t pay attention to your intuition.

[Winnie] (05:12)
Okay. Yeah. So there was a point in my life when I felt like intellectually, nothing was wrong. And I had grown up in this society, right, where all of us trust our brains first and foremost, and then we kind of start to ignore these other resources, of our body, of our intuition, and then of course of others, of our family and our friends. And so…

[Dana] (05:27)
Okay, now.

[Winnie] (05:53)
…intellectually it’s like, on paper everything seems fine, it’s like, what’s wrong? But stopping now, I realized it was like my body telling me something was wrong, it was like a deeper connection, something was wrong. And I was doing that thing where you almost are standing outside of your body, kind of just looking down, and you’re like, what is actually wrong, like nothing is wrong here. But I found that when you’re doing that, it’s because you’re disconnecting from reality, during that. And so I just started investigating, really, that was a huge part of it, was just getting curious, like, what is this?

[Dana] (06:31)
Mm-hmm. Absolutely, I love that, I love the way you put about getting curious, I say that a lot with my patients and my practice, because then it creates an atmosphere where it’s not judgmental, and you can just look at it from a point of curiosity. Like you said, just curious, what’s going on here, it kind of brings the pressure down, it opens us up to just sort of lift up the hood a little bit and say, hmm, what’s that rattle I hear in my car, I just want to investigate and see what’s going on.

[Winnie] (07:07)
Yeah. And to be fair, it did not start like that, it started with full-on judgment, coming from like, wait a second, almost like shame or confusion. So the curiosity part happened whenever I started to get help and talk to people about it, and kind of learn this new language of how to also talk to myself whenever I was confused by what was happening.

[Dana] (07:46)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, and usually when we are having those experiences of dissociating or detaching and feeling like we’re kind of next to ourself watching scenarios, we’re really feeling rather emotionally traumatized. And those experiences and those traumas impact us both in our private life, our personal life, and can also impact us at work and our effectiveness at work. So when you’re going through this experience, obviously, as with anyone, share whatever you’re comfortable sharing, everyone’s story is unique, and you share what you’re comfortable sharing about how it was impacting you personally with relationships or whatever, and also, did it flow over into your work life, or was your work life totally separate, or how did that play out for you?

[Winnie] (08:19)
Yeah, I feel like, whether it was a sort of digging in for control, the work life stayed really steady. I knew that was a place where I had already built flow, I had already understood my value system, why it’s related to work and my clients, and I had already built the patterns and the systems and the habits and the rituals and the routines. What I didn’t have is those for my personal life. So I had all the habits for my business world, so honestly it was still trucking along great. But what I know is that whenever your personal life is in turmoil, it does affect your business life. So my question would be, what if my personal life had been amazing and I had all of the rituals set up for my business, in theory my business could have exploded even more. Having said that, I then had to backtrack and do the work for my personal life. It’s kind of funny, a lot of people think that they know themselves better, but I felt like I knew my business better than I knew myself at that time. I was like, this is predictable.

[Dana] (09:49)
That’s interesting. Well, and you’re bringing up some fantastic points, because you were saying basically at work you had structure, and you had organization and routine, and we thrive on that, and that makes us feel safe. And what you’re also describing, in a sense, are boundaries. And for those that know me, that’s my big passion is boundaries, I have a personal story about that, and I see it a lot in my practice. And it’s like what you’re describing, is at work we do have boundaries, we go into work, we know generally speaking when to show up and when to leave and what we’re supposed to do when we’re there, the relationships that we have with our boss, our coworkers, our clients, are defined. And so it helps us feel a little safer. But sometimes in our private lives and our personal lives, setting those boundaries is harder to do, and so we don’t feel as safe. What was your experience with that?

[Winnie] (10:45)
Yeah, I would definitely agree. There’s so much nuance, and that’s one of the things I’ve come to learn in general, I have, like most people, very black-and-white boxes, good and bad, black and white, yes and no. And when it comes to personal things, there’s so much more nuance and gray matter, and that middle space and paradoxical things. And so you want to sometimes go outside of your value system because you love someone so much, and you’re like, well, this is my value system, is to be loving. But then you realize sometimes that you’re abandoning yourself, even if it feels aligned with your values to care for someone else, for instance, just as an example. But if it’s going to affect your value systems, it’s going to create turmoil. And so…

[Dana] (11:47)
Mm-hmm.

[Winnie] (11:48)
I was coming out of really just going full force into real estate, and going from two incomes to one income. And during that time, I thought I was on top of the world because my business was going crazy, but my personal life, I was definitely rediscovering myself. So this was several years ago, it was kind of like rediscovering myself, going out, meeting all of these new people that I never had the opportunity to meet, and kind of figuring out who I am. And part of it almost felt like a return to me, like that wild teenager kind of energy came back, which I had really loved. But after doing that for a while, say for instance, drinking and just going out, staying up late…

[Winnie] (12:47)
…which is something that’s very prevalent in the real estate world, it’s a big thing. There’s so many big thinkers and big conversations and big talking that you don’t want to leave those spaces. And meanwhile, there’s so much interest, there are so many interesting things happening and interesting people out there, but you realize, is that even who you are?

[Dana] (13:02)
Mm-hmm.

[Winnie] (13:13)
Is that even who you want to be? Do you want to be them? Do you want to be there with them? Or is that just something shiny and interesting and new? I think it took a while to figure out that while I’m good at that, it isn’t who I am. I think that was one of the realizations.

[Dana] (13:14)
Mm-hmm. Wow, I love everything that you’re saying. And as you’re talking, my brain is going in several different directions, I’m known for just going there. And one of the things I’m thinking about is, to be honest, like it or not, us females, we have to be aware that if we’re solo and single, or sometimes it doesn’t even matter, if we’re single or not, and if we’re in an entrepreneurial space and we’re going out, like you’re describing this scenario, that makes perfect sense. So you’re going out, you’re very shiny, you’re out, you’re wining, dining, if you’re into sales, and you’re going out, and like you said, you don’t want to leave the table, because who knows what deals are going to be made, what connections are going to be made. You want to be there because you want to be part of that, because that’s going to help your business. But also, I feel like…

[Winnie] (14:16)
We’re very shiny.

[Dana] (14:37)
…that might be difficult at times, because I feel like some people might expect boundaries to be crossed, or try to cross boundaries that are inappropriate. I mean, you may or may not have experienced something personally, I would imagine you probably know of stories of women who, let’s just be real, let’s not act like that’s not happening, we women, we get out there in sales, and things happen.

[Dana] (15:07)
And sometimes we’re one of the guys until we’re not, until they don’t want us to be, and then the tables start shifting. And I’m just wondering, if I have any listeners out there, any women who are experiencing that and wanting some pieces of advice, some words of wisdom, something, they’re trying to build their business, they’re trying to be an entrepreneur, but they’re in a space where they’re out with men, they’re having to go out and have drinks at night…

[Winnie] (15:07)
We’re one of the guys, but we’re not actually.

[Dana] (15:38)
What would you recommend, if they’re listening to you right now? Like you said, they don’t want to walk away from the table and leave, because there’s going to be a deal that they want to be part of. But like you said earlier, are they willing to cross that line?

[Winnie] (15:49)
Yeah, and I definitely have experienced and seen things that just give you that ick feeling. And that’s what I’m talking about with not following my intuition, and just going forward, and that “well, you’re the cool girl” vibe, we’re cool with anything, we’re down. But ultimately at the end of the day, what I found is that I’m actually not.

[Dana] (16:01)
Mm-hmm.

[Winnie] (16:24)
So, but I guess for advice, I would say one of the things that I didn’t do was I didn’t have a strong group of women around me. I mostly had a decent amount of men around me, and I trust them, I still trust them, it isn’t that, but I didn’t have that group of women around me to almost check me, to challenge me, to offer feedback, to question me and get into my heart and soul and figure out, where are you in this, Winnie, is this really what you want to do, is this really okay? So I think having a really good group of supportive females, and making sure that, if you are living that lifestyle, because if you’re in sales, that’s part of my lifestyle, to this day, I travel, I go to dinners, there’s happy hours, things like that. But I definitely have more accountability around that now. And also, I would say having that place to return to, to recharge, that is a huge thing for me, I have created rituals and routines at home and habits that have helped bring me back to me, so that I don’t question who I am. Because there was definitely a place where I was like, is this even me anymore, or is this just who I think people want me to be, and that’s so outside of me, because I preach authenticity in my marketing and in my real estate, so I was like, Winnie, you’re being a little bit out of integrity in this. But having said that, I didn’t know better yet, I didn’t realize that I was…

[Winnie] (18:21)
…doing the work to self-discover and identify what really is important to me, not just intellectually, but in my heart and in my gut, those body checks, and then adding those rituals for when you get home, or when you get to your safe place to recharge, because some of those experiences can be depleting if they’re out of alignment. So anything that’s out of alignment, you can do it for a short period of time, don’t get me wrong, but you can’t do it for a lifetime…

[Dana] (18:43)
Mm-hmm.

[Winnie] (18:51)
…because it will totally destroy you.

[Dana] (18:51)
Right. Well, like you said, it’s not aligned with who you are as a person. And when you think about it, I kind of view things a lot through a boundaries lens, because that’s just kind of how my brain processes things, there’s yeses and there’s nos. And what I’m hearing you say, the yeses are making sure that you are bringing in those strong women to encourage, to mentor, to give you ideas, to have your back, to challenge you, to…

[Winnie] (19:22)
Yeah.

[Dana] (19:23)
…to say, hey, you’re kind of skidding sideways, are you aware of these danger areas, the ones who’ve been in the business longer or whatever and they’ve been through some things, and they can say, hey, you may not be aware but you’re getting ready to possibly go into something that’s a little dicey, a little risky, let’s build you up, let’s make you strong. So that would be a huge yes, right, bringing all these strong, wonderful, creative women around you. And also the other side is no, which is a side that I’ve run into with females having a harder time with, the no, and something specific when you have women who are in businesses that are dominated at times by males. And sometimes, just be brutally honest, sometimes there’s a situation, and I’m not making this up, where you’re sitting next to someone, a male who’s in some kind of a power position, and he’s laying his hand on your leg or your knee or some such thing. The question that was posed to me at one point by a woman I was interacting with, we were talking about boundaries, and she said, I need to know how to say no without burning that bridge, because let’s be real, he has power, I can’t afford to burn that bridge, let’s be real and honest about this, but at the same time I don’t want him to think that this is going to be going in some direction that I’m not comfortable with. And so I was wondering…

[Winnie] (20:45)
Mm. Yeah, and you can only play it off so much, kind of like…

[Dana] (21:06)
One of the things that I found helpful, and I’m really wondering what your experience has been and your words of wisdom here, is how can we say no but in a very diplomatic fashion, whether we’re doing it with our body, whether we’re doing it with our words, where we’re saying no without actually saying the word no, but some women are very uncomfortable just saying “no, stop that,” but we could possibly give them some other choices of what to do and what to say, like when they’re traveling and it’s happy hour and people have had a few drinks. We just have to be honest about this, when we’re traveling a lot, when we’re in sales, it happens, it happens. And so I’m trying to speak to women out there who are trying to be rock stars in their jobs, and they’re out there rocking it, and they’re traveling and doing the things, and then they find themselves…

[Winnie] (21:51)
Yeah, it does.

[Dana] (22:04)
…in these awkward situations of needing to have that connection, not wanting to burn the bridge, but they don’t want to go there. No judgment on somebody that does, everybody’s different, everybody’s walking their own path, but I’m talking to the women who want to say no and don’t know how. What are your suggestions for those women?

[Winnie] (22:13)
Yeah, I think one of the best suggestions would simply be a redirect of the conversation, like bring up something more professional, and just almost create a Pavlovian response of every time it goes a little bit to the edge, bringing it back to something work-related. Part of me even says, bringing it back to, how’s your daughter, or something like that, I’ve done that before.

[Dana] (22:53)
How’s your wife been?

[Winnie] (22:55)
Yeah, it’s like, she’s doing great. So I think part of it is kind of bringing it back to where it is. And then the other thing is, hey, I don’t feel comfortable with that. And then I do think there is something to be said for putting a hand up, that’s my personal, I don’t know if it’s almost like a visual cue of a boundary. And then one of the things I’ve done too many times, and I feel like I’m overdoing this, is kind of laughing it off, like, don’t you be doing that anymore, being silly about it. It’s definitely like, hey, that’s not cool, man, and just stopping. One of the things I’ve also done, and I had to do this via text recently, is, someone asked me out for dinner, and I was like, it’s somebody I know in a professional way, and so I just said…

[Winnie] (23:54)
“I’m not interested in having dinner with you,” and then stop. Whereas in the past, I would have given a reason, I would have given an excuse, I would have softened it so that it didn’t hurt his feelings or something like that. But I feel like that almost gives an excuse for them to find another route in, so to speak. So just simply stating without any excuse or any reasoning or any logic behind it…

[Dana] (24:02)
Oh.

[Winnie] (24:24)
…that is one of the things that I have found to be really effective.

[Dana] (24:30)
That’s wonderful. You are preaching the whole boundary thing, because no is a complete sentence, and we are not obligated to give a reason for our nos, we can if we want to, that’s our choice. But what I’ve discovered, I call it the noose, because when we’re talking to someone, they’ve asked us to do something, and we say no and then we start to explain why…

[Winnie] (24:33)
Yeah. Yes.

[Dana] (25:00)
…then it’s sort of like handing them rope, and they’re going to take that rope and make a noose out of it and hang us with our own words. For example, if you were to say, well, I can’t go out to eat dinner with you because I’m just really tired, I’ve been sick lately and I just need to go home and rest, then naturally his response is going to be…

[Winnie] (25:04)
It’s giving the ammunition. What about next week?

[Dana] (25:28)
He took the words and fashioned that rope into a noose and hung it. So it’s much more…

[Winnie] (25:33)
Yeah. Which is fair, because if I said the reason was because X, Y, and Z, and there’s a solution to X and Z, then of course you’re going to take it. But if it’s just, I’m not interested in that, period, pause. The pause is great too.

[Dana] (25:46)
Mm-hmm. Yes, and that’s fantastic, I’m so glad that you did that. We can just say no, and we train people what to expect from us. So once you start training these individuals that you’re just going to say no, thank you, and that’s it, then they’re going to learn that they can’t manipulate you in that way. And that’s a wonderful thing to teach someone. So I was wondering too, you’re in real estate, which is entrepreneurial…

[Winnie] (26:01)
Yeah.

[Dana] (26:19)
And that’s scary in a sense, because it’s fabulous and exciting and the potential is amazing, and also it’s scary because it’s a gamble. It’s not like working for a company where you’re going to get a set paycheck every single week or two weeks or a month, it can be a huge boon or it can be a desert. So what has…

[Winnie] (26:35)
Hmm?

[Dana] (26:47)
…what has helped you navigate these entrepreneurial waters?

[Winnie] (26:53)
Yeah, so that’s one of the things in real estate and in sales, I feel like that’s why they have that phrase, work hard, play hard. And also we found a lot in the entrepreneurial world, and I see this all the time, where you don’t always speak the same language as somebody in a nine-to-five setting, they don’t understand the stresses of it, because of the…

[Winnie] (27:24)
…inconsistent paychecks or things like that, so they don’t quite understand it. So you need to definitely seek other people who have been through it, who have created structure enough to support the instability that is sales and entrepreneurship. So I’m a big systems person for sure, that helps me a lot. And I’m definitely cognizant of who I surround myself with, making sure that the other salespeople I surround myself with aren’t blaming the market or blaming clients or something like that, but take extreme ownership in the success of their organization and their business. And that’s one other thing, but creating systems around it, having coaches around the mindset part of it. And one of the things I have found is that every time my business has slowed down, if I just continue to do the things I’m supposed to do, it speeds back up. So there is a trust that I’ve been able to build in myself through time on task, over time, it’s been six years that I’ve been in this industry, and every time I’ve had a bad month, I’ve followed it with a good month. So now I have this belief in myself that, oh, I have a bad month, that means I’m about to have a good month, so just completely reframing those more challenging times, because I know that every time I’ve had a challenging time it’s been turned into a successful time. So it’s like, all of the slow times for me are a time to build, a time to get your systems more in place, a time maybe to rest, a time to learn something new. So that’s what I use that downtime for, because I’ve created these patterns now, I know, it’s downtime, oh, it’s time to learn something or rest or sharpen a system. And it always comes out, but you have to trust that, the first couple times I was like, Mayday, Mayday, I’m freaking out, where’s my next paycheck gonna come from? But it happens, it’s cyclical, the industry is cyclical, just like entrepreneurship in general.

[Dana] (29:47)
I love that, I love that, I do the same thing with a slow spot. Well, and I think from listening to you give that answer, it seems like there’s some personalities that are more designed for just a more corporate space where they’re in there, and there’s more something that can be depended on, they don’t really have the personality for entrepreneurial. And then there’s other people where the thought of going and working at a desk or an office or in a cubicle, they would just as soon scrape their face off with their fingernails. I mean, it’s just…

[Winnie] (30:39)
Pretty much, yep. It’s funny.

[Dana] (30:40)
It’s very, and I think we need to honor who we are as a person, what is our natural personality style?

[Winnie] (30:48)
Yeah, a lot of people in my industry, the uncertainty is part of what drives them to success. And I have absolutely found that with me, if I don’t know what my quarter four is going to look like or something like that, then it almost is like a slingshot, I pull back and I study and contract and get everything ready to go.

[Dana] (30:54)
Okay.

[Winnie] (31:16)
So it creates this stress inside of me that I’ve been able to use to fuel me, and I feel like that’s definitely what a lot of entrepreneurs do. Having said that, a lot of people, I mean in real estate alone, there’s an insane attrition rate, like 90% of agents quit in the first year, so you have to push past these known markers for sustainability, and really have real questions with yourself and your partner, is this actually okay for me, is this stress worth it? For me, the stress is worth it, it fuels my success, for other people the stress tears them down. And when I was in a nine-to-five role, I haven’t been in that role in over 11 years, in a kind of corporate world…

[Winnie] (32:12)
I was a bad employee, I was kind of, not middle of the road, but just right at the top, just enough to get noticed and get accolades, because I do like that, but not enough, I was still being told what to do. So I wanted to own what I do, and having that opportunity to own what I do, and then now my success or failure is 100% in my hands, it’s really empowering, it’s scary, but it’s empowering.

[Dana] (32:46)
Yeah. Well, I’m glad you found that and you honored that about yourself, and I would encourage anybody that’s listening, whether your personality is leaning more toward really enjoying and being comfortable in that nine-to-five space, or really needing to spread wings and face jumping off the cliff into the entrepreneurial world, whichever it is, that’s okay, but be very honoring of who you are and find something that resonates with you. Because if you have someone who’s in an entrepreneurial space whose personality is really more for nine-to-five, it’s not going to work out very well, and vice versa. It’s just like, figure that out.

[Winnie] (33:20)
Yeah, yeah, definitely a lot of soul searching and understanding, even certain types of personality assessments, I think are wise to take so that you can understand yourself better, so that you know why it doesn’t feel right. Once again, this comes back to our initial topic of why intuitively something feels off. I teach at the local college here sometimes, and one of the things I’ve taught to the students who are about to go interview at companies, I teach on the compensation panel, and there’s this other exhibit where we give advice, and one of the things I share with them is, I’m like, you want to interview them just as much as they’re interviewing you. And also keep in mind that if you’re there and you feel like something is off, it might not be that the industry is off, it might be that the people are off, but this is still your chosen industry. Because I think a lot of the times people abandon an industry because they think something is wrong or they’re not good at it, but it’s the people, or vice versa, that the people are amazing but the industry is out of alignment with who they are. It really once again goes back to, they really have to discover themselves, but just know it isn’t necessarily that you’re not good at it, it is that there’s something that is challenging or pushing against one of your boundaries or one of your values, and you just haven’t identified it yet. Because it might not be the industry or the people, it might be something completely different.

[Dana] (35:09)
I like that, I like the way you’re breaking it down into different components for them to investigate and see what exactly it is, so they can make those choices. That’s nice. So what I was going to ask you, one of your questions is, what’s your go-to ritual for starting your day on a positive note? That’s a good question, so what is your go-to ritual?

[Winnie] (35:18)
Yeah, I have a very distinct ritual, and it’s very calming. So that’s one of the things, in my world I have to be on all the time, I have to entertain people, I have to be smiling, I have to be shiny, kind of all the time. Now I will say once people get to know me, they see who I am, and it isn’t coming from a place of disingenuousness, it’s coming from a place of having high energy, so when I’m home I am very low energy. So my morning ritual is, I read first thing in the morning for at least 30 minutes to an hour, and I usually stay in bed, or sometimes I’ll sit on the porch, so it’s very calming. I wake up pretty early, so it’s still dark out, so it’s a way of still resting my mind and my body while not going anywhere. And then whenever I leave, I come out and I have a big glass of cold water, and then I have my green drink, my green drink is probably one of my most coveted things, I have a green drink every morning. And the funny thing is, it isn’t even about the green drink or what’s in the green drink, it’s the fact that I know I’m loving myself and nurturing myself and feeding myself something good in the morning. And then I usually, at that point, we’ll do some sort of breathing exercise just to get me grounded in the day. I’ll light some sage or something, smell is such an important part of ritual, I have discovered, I’ve been noticing so much lately how certain smells could just drop you in. So sometimes we’ll light Palo Santo or something. And then I start working, I love working, I love my job, I love what I do, I love being on my computer, I love my projects, so that’s exciting for me. And then usually I work for a little while and then get ready to go, and then I’m out and about. I often don’t do appointments before say 10 or 11 so that I have a very nurturing time in the morning, so it’s just totally about me. Music sometimes, no music sometimes, but quiet, soft, no matter what it is, just very calming.

[Dana] (38:02)
It sounds very calming and it sounds, you’re very centering and it’s very grounding, and you’re kind of just setting the stage to walk into that day so you’re not knocked sideways. You’ve grounded yourself very well and centered yourself. It kind of reminds me, there’s a line in Fergie’s song “Big Girls Don’t Cry,” I know this was an old song, but there’s a line in there I never forgot, she said, “I need to be with myself at center.” And that sounds like what you were doing, you were getting yourself at the center and calming yourself down and grounding yourself so that then you can go out into the world. Now, tell me…

[Winnie] (38:37)
I like that, I’m taking that down. And it’s just like a return, so that I remember to return to me, because in the past I hadn’t returned to me. So it’s like the return to me.

[Dana] (39:02)
I like that. I like that a lot.

[Winnie] (39:03)
It’s like, it’s the memory of it kind of, and the habit of, okay, return back, return back.

[Dana] (39:07)
And just returning back, and returning back, yeah, it’s like, coming back to base. It’s like coming back to home base, so you can go out and whatever, but you always got to come back to home base, that’s where the centering is.

[Winnie] (39:14)
Totally. Yes, and sometimes that can be a person or a place, or, and the hope is that you find it within yourself, or a combination of all of those is really great. So even, I travel a lot, and I bring the travel versions of my green drink, the whole nine yards, and even just practice my…

[Dana] (39:33)
Mm-hmm.

[Winnie] (39:49)
…breathing at the airport and things like that, because it’s so noisy and I just want to be centered, especially before I go deliver a lot, because I teach and I love to teach, it’s so amazing, so I’m giving a lot. So I just want, yeah, it is that centering no matter where I am.

[Dana] (40:10)
So Winnie, what I have here for my listeners to be able to access you more, if they want to know more about you, get in touch with you, I have your Instagram, Instagram.com slash Winnie, W-I-N-N-I-E, and Company, is that how you want them to reach you?

[Winnie] (40:26)
Yes, yes, that’s perfect.

[Dana] (40:31)
I’ll put that in the show notes, listeners, so if you’re out jogging or walking, I’ll have it in the show notes. Alright, Winnie, I appreciate your time.

[Winnie] (40:33)
Yeah. Perfect. And then for teaching, thank you so much. It was a pleasure. I was going to say, my classes are based in values and branding your values, so they can go to WinnieRodgers.com as well to look more about my teaching style.

[Dana] (40:46)
Now what did you start to add? Okay, I’m writing that down.

[Winnie] (41:03)
Perfect.

[Dana] (41:06)
I’ll put both of those things in the show notes. Awesome.

[Winnie] (41:14)
It’s funny, I didn’t know where we were going to take it today, but I love that we took it to women protecting themselves and learning to identify what is okay, and then creating that safe space for sure. So thank you for the opportunity to share that.

[Dana] (41:33)
Absolutely. Thank you for the connection and this time. Winnie, thank you for gracing us with your knowledge and your experience and your transparency and your time today. Thank you very, very much.

[Winnie] (41:45)
Thank you. Have a good one.

[Dana] (41:48)
Alright, listeners, I know that you have heard Winnie say multiple things today that you’re thinking, oh my gosh, I have a best friend or a family member or a coworker that really needs to hear what Winnie Rodgers has to say. Take this episode, copy and paste the link in your text, in your email, post it on your favorite social media platforms so that we can grow our Phoenix and Flame community and learn and teach and show people that they are not alone. We’re in this together. I’m Dana on Phoenix and Flame.