How to Stop Living Someone Else’s Life (with Arnold Beekes)

[Dana] (00:01)
Welcome friends, whether you’re out on a walk, running errands, or relaxing at home, it’s wonderful to connect with you. Joining us today is Arnold Beeks. Now Arnold enables people to move from fitting in to flying out. Now he grew up in an environment of extreme fitting in. Conformity was an integral part of his upbringing. His father was a military officer both in his work and at home. Now in his career, Arnold worked 20 years in technology and organizational leadership, then 20 years in psychology and personal leadership. Arnold, welcome to Phoenix and Flame.

[Arnold] (00:31)
You’re frozen.

[Dana] (01:01)
Uh oh. Okay, so…

[Arnold] (01:10)
You were frozen,

[Dana] (01:11)
Yeah, you were frozen too for a moment. Sometimes that happens, it doesn’t happen a lot, but once in a while it does. So let’s hope that’s the only time that’s going to happen. Since it was at the beginning, I’ll just start over. If it happens in the middle, what Riverside does is it’ll pick it up whenever the internet is reestablished. And so in the editing process,

[Arnold] (01:13)
Mmm.

[Dana] (01:40)
we can fix all that. So let’s just start all over and I’ll just edit all this stuff out. Okay, so now we get to start all over again.

[Arnold] (01:42)
Okay. Well, I didn’t, I only heard it’s like, I’m here on the walk and then you were gone.

[Dana] (01:58)
Got you, got you. Okay, well, we’ll try it again and we’ll just hope it didn’t happen. Okay, so welcome friends, whether you’re out on a walk, running errands or relaxing at home. It’s wonderful to connect with you. Joining us today is Arnold Beeks. Arnold enables people to move from fitting in to flying out. He grew up in an environment of extreme fitting in. Conformity. was an integral part of his upbringing. His father was a military officer both in his work and at home. Now in his career, Arnold worked 20 years in technology and organizational leadership, then 20 years in psychology and personal leadership. Arnold, welcome to Phoenix and Flame.

[Arnold] (02:47)
Thank you very much, happy to be here.

[Dana] (02:49)
This is fantastic. Now, from reading your bio, I know that you have explained how you felt very different from others in like from primary school to high school to university to military service at work. I’m really interested in hearing your experience and having my listeners understand what it was like for you and what the conformity was like.

[Arnold] (03:15)
Yes, so the, the decodical format here was because basically my what my father wanted was the law. And that is what he he wanted us to do. So that is how it was at home. And

[Dana] (03:23)
Huh.

[Arnold] (03:40)
well, at school and university and things, it was much looser. But it was still very tough.

[Dana] (03:43)
Oh my gosh. Hmmmm

[Dana] (18:50)
Do you see me now? Can you hear me?

[Arnold] (18:55)
Now I can hear and see you.

[Dana] (18:59)
I’m very annoyed with Riverside right now and this is the first time this has ever happened. Okay, so maybe third time’s the charm. Shake it off and move along. So let me ask you, do you want to try to do this a third time? Would you rather reschedule? What is your preference?

[Arnold] (19:27)
No, I booked this time and I got no other commitments. I’m absolutely fine to continue. For me, there’s no problem.

[Dana] (19:36)
Okay. All right. I wish I could control all the technology that happens out there in the world, but I cannot do that, so…

[Arnold] (19:43)
Well, that shows how dependent we are on this stuff.

[Dana] (19:47)
That is true. That is true. Okay. So I’m not sure what all that they have got recorded. So I’m just going to start. It’s got recording down here. Okay. All right. So we’ll just, I’ll do it all over again. And if we’ll, we’re going to hope third time’s a charm and just keep going and assume everything’s going to be fine. If it perchance bugs up again, then I’m not going to keep putting you through this. We’ll assume the Riverside is having some kind of issue today for some strange reason because I’ve got over like 125 episodes and this has never happened before. So I went to even some other websites to see if it was my personal internet issue and I’m just fine on other websites. It’s just Riverside.

[Arnold] (20:36)
Yeah, I did the same. On other websites, I got the connection and everything. I was still here, and it was still recording.

[Dana] (20:48)
I’m not sure. Okay, so let’s just start over and we’re going to go forward because I really want to be able to talk to you. All right, so we’re to start. Welcome friends, whether you’re out on a walk, running errands or relaxing at home, it’s wonderful to connect with you. Joining us today is Arnold Beaks. Arnold enables people to move from fitting in to flying out. He grew up in an environment of extreme fitting in. Conformity was an integral part of his upbringing. His father was a military officer, both in his work and at home. Now in his career, Arnold worked 20 years in technology and organizational leadership, then 20 years in psychology and personal leadership. Arnold, welcome to Phoenix in Flame.

[Arnold] (21:47)
Thank you very much, happy to be here.

[Dana] (21:50)
All right, so I know also from your bio that you had an experience in your lifetime where you felt very different from your fellow students in not only primary school, but also it played forward in high school, at university, military service, and even in your work. I’m very interested in you sharing your experience with myself and my listeners on what that conformity was like for you and how you kind of navigated. through those waters.

[Arnold] (22:21)
Well, it was like my father’s will was the law. So anything which happened at home, it should be done according to his will and what he said should be done. And he never asked anything. So he never on any topic. So he always taught you should be doing this, you should be doing this, you should be did and not like what would you like to do? How do you feel? None of those questions were never a part of it. the feeling was a lot of the time I was full of Fear of making mistakes, fear of failure, fear of that my father would find something which was not good enough. And that was so ingrained inside of me, but not only in me, also in my siblings, I guess also in my mother is like, well, until his death, I guess it was part of me that I’m like, I should be really good. I should be really good and not make any mistakes.

[Dana] (23:36)
You had made a comment that I thought really resonated with me and I’ve heard this so much from people. You said, I was conditioned to live someone else’s life. And as if you didn’t really have an option of choosing your own and you were just living someone else’s life. How did that play out for you as you went through your life and you got older? What were some experiences that you had? trying to kind of conform and figure out how to please and in order to feel safe, I would imagine.

[Arnold] (24:12)
Yeah, safety is one part of it, but also being accepted, also acknowledged for what you’re doing. And what I realized some years ago that from the moment we are born, we are conditioned to live someone else’s life because when was Arnold or Dana a good kid, when you do what your parents tell you to do.

[Dana] (24:17)
Hmm.

[Arnold] (24:41)
Then you go to school. When are you a good student at school? Doesn’t matter primary school or high school. It’s like you do exactly what the teacher tells you to do. Maybe you go to church. When are you a good member of the community? When you do what the priest or the Imam or whatever says. Then you go to work. When are you a good employee? When you do exactly what your boss tells you to do. So by the time Most people when you’re 25, the only thing what you have learned is meeting expectations of other people.

[Dana] (25:17)
Good point.

[Arnold] (25:19)
And you’re so you’re constantly not living your own life. You’re living the life of your parents, of your teachers, of your bosses, maybe even of your spouse. So that is the thing is that I’m not living my own life. I’m constantly trying to be is like, is Arnold okay? Is Arnold good enough? Yeah. Do I get a good grade? Do I get a raise or whatever?

[Dana] (25:45)
Mm-hmm.

[Arnold] (25:45)
That was to a certain extreme level in my upbringing, but I realized this is true for most people. And the level of how you experience it might be different, but the experience itself is the same. And that means the moment you… I can still vividly remember when I had my first coach myself, I was at beginning of my 40s.

[Dana] (26:00)
Mm-hmm.

[Arnold] (26:16)
and we were talking and I had before that very senior leadership positions in the corporate world and I was saying I don’t want this anymore, I don’t want to boss, I don’t want this anymore, blah blah blah and he was like okay Arnold I understand but Arnold what do you want and I’m like

[Arnold] (26:41)
No clue. This was the first time in my life ever someone asked me that question.

[Dana] (26:48)
And you were in your 40s at that point.

[Arnold] (26:50)
Yes. And usually I’m not lost for words, but I absolutely was. It’s like, what do I want? My father, my brothers and my colleagues, everybody, yeah, they always tell you what you do, what they expect from you to do. And then he was like, yeah, but I don’t know, forget about it. Well, you’re a free man. I lost my job or whatever. He’s like, what do you want?

[Arnold] (27:23)
And since then I’ve done that exercise with my clients. I’ve not met a client who didn’t have a similar experience. Yeah. So that means is that that was the moment. It was the aha moment where I started to say that was the switch from living someone else’s life to start living my own life. Meaning who’s Arnold? What do I want? What do I want to do? What do I want to do?

[Dana] (27:32)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

[Arnold] (27:53)
Well, the only thing I thought is like in corporate, I need to promote whatever I wanted to be at the highest level because I don’t like bosses, as you now understand. So it like I had to figure that all out. But that’s not only true for me. That’s true for most people, unfortunately.

[Dana] (28:11)
Right. You know, as I’m listening to you describe that and thinking how true those words are for most of us, I had a similar experience when my kids launched out of the home. I have three. And for many, many, many years, I had been focused. My whole life was wrapped around you know, the family and all the needs and everything, everybody’s going on around me. And so there was a day when my husband walked into the room and he said, well, what do you want to do? And my brain was blank. It was almost like it couldn’t process the question. What did I want to do? Because for so long, it had always been about trying to be there for other people. and doing what they needed me to do, getting them to their practices, getting them to their games, buying their back to school stuff, making sure they had all the things. I had never really allowed a whole lot of space for what I wanted to do. So it was really like when he asked me that question, he’d started speaking Russian. I mean, I couldn’t really, my brain, I just sat there and stared at him. My brain was going, does not compute, does not compute.

[Dana] (29:33)
Hmm.

[Arnold] (29:33)
Yeah, it is indeed like a question from another world. I think, not only think, I know that that is the cause of a lot of misery with people. Because you’re not living your own life, you’re living someone else’s life. And then you might say, Arnold, that sounds difficult. But I say it’s like, suppose you buy a dog, a puppy. You buy a Labrador. But the moment the Labrador comes into your home, you raise it like it’s a cat. Yeah, so yeah, yeah, it’s supposed to be a poop inside and not walking and whatever. You already start laughing, but this is what we do with people all the time. it’s like, guess how that puppy, that Labrador will grow up? I tell you, it will not be a nice dog. Yeah, so it will probably start having some very weird behavior except for eating the couch and being aggressive or sick or whatever. And then when I explain that people say, yeah, yeah, I understand. But this is what we do with people all the time.

[Dana] (31:02)
Keep going, I can edit this part out. I can hear you now. It keeps coming in and out. Let’s just keep going unless it shuts down totally.

[Arnold] (31:07)
Yeah. So it is like where all these these Dwarba door copies are raised as a cat and where you can add any example you want. But it’s like it is that makes you feel miserable. That creates mental problems, that creates physical problems and everything. That is what we see in our lives and it’s getting multiplied I would say by the social media and everything else, everybody is taught to be someone else than who they are.

[Dana] (31:43)
Right, and they don’t even really know who they are like you were saying earlier. You had another statement in your bio. You said, feel stressed, powerless, and not good enough in a world where others are pulling the strings. And I’ve talked to so many people who have said pretty much that exact same thing. It’s difficult. It’s like, what do you do?

[Arnold] (32:08)
Exactly, but isn’t it strange that most people, if not all, recognized is that is a sign that our upbringing, there’s something wrong with our upbringing, there’s something wrong with the education system, there’s something wrong with the business management environment. If it only was Arnold’s experience, would say, okay, Arnold is a bit of a strange duck. Yeah, he’s like, yeah, yeah.

[Dana] (32:30)
Ha ha. Hahaha

[Arnold] (32:35)
It’s like, yeah, well, he’s the only guy who’s having that. But everybody I’m talking about, they all recognize it. So for me, that shows that the system is failing.

[Dana] (32:52)
Well, and I know somebody whose dad was much like you describe your dad, but his response, he went the whole opposite way. He just totally rebelled. As soon as he got old enough, he flew out of that house like a bat out of hell. And he grew his hair super long and started listening to all kinds of crazy music and all kinds of things. It’s like… He was rebelling against the rigidity that his military dad had forced on him and the control that his dad insisted on having, that he couldn’t do anything about that when he was younger. But when he finally got old enough, I’m telling you, he flew out of that house like a bat out of hell and he’s never been back. And so it’s like, I’m wondering in your experience personally and also with your clients, how to find a balance between on the one hand, continuing to live our adult lives, just conforming, conforming, conforming, conforming, feeling totally out of control. And on the other hand, rebelling and going totally, totally off the deep end on the other side, rebelling 180 degrees against the control that had been pushed on us when we were younger. So in your experience, what is the best way to try to find a balance?

[Arnold] (34:12)
Yes, indeed. I use the same word, Dana. I use the word balance. It means that just because I’m living my own life doesn’t mean I’m a rebel. I think it should be the norm what I’m doing and what I suppose you are doing. it is not rebelling against, no, it’s showing that the other system is completely stupid and it doesn’t work. And look at the whole sick care system, I don’t call it health care anymore because it’s got nothing to do with health, but it’s like the whole, I guess.

[Dana] (34:39)
Hmm.

[Arnold] (34:53)
Right now, more than 80 % of the people have some kind of mental or physical problem with their health. Why is that? Is that normal? Yeah, that is the norm, but it is not normal. So this way of treating people causes so many problems. And the people I work with as a coach is like the moment you help them to start living their own life. They’re very happy. They’re very healthy. They’re performing at a much higher level than they were. But it doesn’t mean that you have to be a rebel or a maverick or an idiot or whatever. I always say to people, well, I still don’t have long hair. This was the hair I’m supposed to have when I was in the military or whatever.

[Dana] (35:43)
Hahaha

[Arnold] (35:46)
I like it because I never have to comb my hair. I never have to look in the mirror whether I have to comb my hair, whether it’s looking good. It’s very convenient. But besides that, it’s like, I still like that people, if they’re driving in the car or their bike, that they stop for the red traffic light.

[Dana] (35:49)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

[Arnold] (36:08)
I still like it if you’re standing in line for the checkout in the supermarket and people get behind and not try to get up front. So there are things in society, whatever. And of course you need to conform because otherwise we’d be a complete mess with 8 billion people.

[Dana] (36:25)
Mm-hmm. True.

[Arnold] (36:28)
So there’s a huge thing between conforming to a society of people who somehow have to live and work together and being a rebel who says, well, for me, there are no rules. Well, well, then you got to live in a cage or something like that.

[Dana] (36:36)
Mm-hmm. Right, right. So as I’m listening to you talk, I’m thinking about boundaries because that is an area that I’m very passionate about and I do a lot of coaching and boundaries. And when I’m hearing you speak, I’m thinking if we look at it through the lens of boundaries, it’s like we have, we acknowledge our right to our own thoughts, feelings, opinions, actions, and also that other people have a right to theirs as well. And so If we imagine a fence line between our yard and their yard, then we liberate, we release other people to have whatever feelings they would like to have, whatever opinions they would like to have, but we don’t necessarily think we have to agree. And so it creates space in our mind. It creates space for other people’s opinions. And we also have to intentionally create space for our own opinions. But sometimes from what you’re saying, When we’ve come up through childhood and many years of being told to conform, conform, conform, we have a hard time figuring out, well, what is my opinion? What do I think? What do I want in light of everybody else? That that’s a struggle.

[Arnold] (38:05)
Yes, and that is why one of the main things with what I’m helping people to do, they got to do it themselves, but it’s like every person in this world is totally unique. So there’s nobody in the world like Dana and there’s nobody in the world like Arnold and there’s nobody like the other 7.9 billion, whatever, 8 billion people.

[Arnold] (38:33)
If you realize that, that doesn’t mean that say, hey, you got to be the same as me or comparing, which is very damaging to people. like, hey, it’s no use comparing because there’s nobody like me. So why should I compare? And that at the same time is like, I would like people to respect my uniqueness, but I also respect your uniqueness. And that creates that space where you’re talking about.

[Dana] (38:44)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, well, and at the end of the day, we have to respect our own uniqueness because we would like for the other person to respect our uniqueness, but we can’t force them to and they may not. But we can respect our own uniqueness, regardless of if someone else respects it or not. And I really like what you said a few moments ago about the comparison. You absolutely hit the nail on the head with that because I was thinking earlier, I was looking around my office at all of the books that I’m currently reading. I think I have about eight that I’m in various levels of reading because I just love the content of all these books. And I got to thinking, you know, there’s so many books that have been written. If the authors thought, why should I write? If they compare themselves to someone else and they think, why should I write a book? Because so many other people… have already written books and maybe even written books on this particular topic. Why should I write a book that the comparison would just drain their uniqueness out and then we wouldn’t get the benefit of their unique footprint on the world, which is what I think I’m hearing you say.

[Arnold] (40:18)
Yes, and that is one of the reasons why… why a lot of books also like methods, it’s like method to lose weight and matter to become successful in business and matter to be happy in relationships, whatever, are millions of these books. Why a lot of them are not working for you and me, because that person who described his or her unique way is not the same as I or you are. it’s like that is why it shows it doesn’t work for me. That was a big aha because I started like when I became an entrepreneur is like I followed this method. I’m still not a millionaire. I’m still not 100 % healthy all the time. Whatever. Yes sir. like maybe Arnold you should go back to the corporate world because this is not work.

[Arnold] (41:21)
And then I realized like, no, no, I’m not, I’m not going to repeat what my father did. You’re not good enough. Whatever. There’s nothing wrong with me. It’s just that person wrote down his or her unique perspective on a certain topic.

[Dana] (41:42)
Mm-hmm.

[Arnold] (41:45)
That’s why, and it’s also from a person, but it’s also from time, geography, time, space, geography. Something I’m currently living in Romania, if it works in the state doesn’t mean it works in Romania. But I can give a very easy example. Look at cookbooks where

[Dana] (42:00)
true.

[Arnold] (42:07)
where you can find recipes, whatever, and these most beautiful things of these dishes, like, oh, that looks really nice and very good, whatever. Have you ever tried to make that recipe and it looks the same as in the picture of the book?

[Dana] (42:24)
Almost never. That is a good point.

[Arnold] (42:31)
Yeah, that means is like, you’re always at a maximum, but I say 40, 50 % of the other thing. And that again, emphasizes is like, no, there’s nothing wrong with you. It’s like, yeah, you followed the steps in the recipe. There’s nothing wrong with you. just, maybe they forgot something, a step, maybe they… they add some stuff which they didn’t mention. It doesn’t matter. It like that doesn’t mean you’re a failure. That just means it did work for that other person under his or her circumstance in his or her space. And that’s why I say, try to stop copying other people, try to stop copying their methods, their prescriptions, their everything, and like figure out the way which works for you.

[Dana] (43:29)
Well, and I think listening to you that doing that would require some self-confidence. And I’m curious about your experience of how to move from, I’m not good enough, or I’m only good enough if someone else is approving of me. How were you able to move from that space to self-acceptance? To say, I am… I am confident enough to try something on my own. I am confident enough to stand on my own, even if it doesn’t match this person or that person, or even if they don’t agree with me, or if that other person is not doing what I’m doing, I’m doing something different. Where along your journey were you able to step into that space of self-acceptance and then to move into self-confidence?

[Arnold] (44:18)
Well, that is an essential step, but the step before that is to realize that what other people are saying about you is not relevant. Yeah. And it can be that some people say you’re great or some people say you’re lousy or whatever. It doesn’t matter. It like it only matters is like who are you and how is your inner voice? How is your self-talk? How is that? And So I see it do the things which you’re good at. Do the thing, in your time and effort and energy and discipline to do the things. And if you put in all of your effort and it didn’t work out or it did work out, you say, it’s fine. Arnold, I worked hard. It’s not that I was a lazy bum and I didn’t do it. No, I worked hard. I did my best. That is all I can do. and train yourself and I’m literally, I’m living here by myself. It’s like literally, I’m sitting here like, well done, Arlo.

[Dana] (45:35)
I like it.

[Arnold] (45:36)
It’s so important because we’re only, like I said, well, I never got a compliment from either of my parents, nor neither get my siblings. So for me, like getting a compliment, look, oh, what’s happening here? I’m literally up till this very moment and it’s long time ago since I grew up there, whatever. He’s like, okay, Arnold, that went fine. It’s like being kind to yourself.

[Dana] (46:06)
Mm-hmm. I love this. So this is an audio podcast and so they can’t see what you’re doing, but I want to explain listeners. He’s literally patting himself on the back and that is fantastic. I have done that myself when something has gone right and I’m kind of proud of myself for doing something and listeners, would, I would really encourage you literally lift your hand up, reach around and pat yourself on the back when you feel like you’ve done something well. That’s what, that’s what Arnold was just doing. That’s fantastic.

[Arnold] (46:08)
We’ll Or Daniel do this, he’s like, hey, hey, hey, I did it.

[Dana] (46:39)
Arms in the air, arms in the air, yeah. You know, as you were talking earlier, I was thinking of an example that I sometimes give when I’m talking to someone who’s having problems finding their own opinion because they’re sucked into everyone else’s opinion so much because you said that was a crucial first step. I said, you know, if you pick out an outfit that you think is really attractive, I said, if I were to go over to the mall, and pull 10 random people into this office and pull them and ask them, what do you think about this person’s outfit? And if they gave you eight or 10 different responses, who’s right? It’s just like everybody else is going to have an opinion. at the end of the day, like you were saying, everybody has a right to their opinion, but yours is the one that matters the most when you’re talking about what you’re thinking, what you want to do or don’t want to do. It’s like creating space for you.

[Arnold] (47:38)
And always people saying is that other people are watching me, they’re seeing me, they’re looking at me. I cannot use this bag or this shoe or this coat or whatever. But they’re not because most people are just focused on themselves. They don’t even notice you when you were there an hour ago or a week ago. You had, well, they call it the spotlight effect. Yeah. It’s like, yeah, well, you have a…

[Dana] (47:52)
Yes.

[Arnold] (48:05)
big spot here because well something went wrong with the food or whatever. Nobody noticed.

[Dana] (48:11)
You’re right. you have that is an amazing point because we walk around thinking that everyone’s staring at us when really everyone else is just self-absorbed to their they’re not really looking at us as nearly as much as they’re looking at their own self. And that’s 100 % true.

[Arnold] (48:27)
Yeah, I simple example. I was this week at a concert and there was a guy making photos, a professional photographer. And I looked at the guy and I’m like, hey, I’ve seen that photographer on a conference where I was two weeks ago. So, and he stand often in that conference, he stand next to me taking pictures. And, and, and I asked him, said, where are you at the conference two weeks ago? And he looked at me like he’s never seen me before.

[Arnold] (48:57)
it said the guy was standing next to me in that corporate well in total must be half an hour is so it like

[Dana] (49:06)
Ha That is awesome. So I want to, know our time is about up, but I did want to ask you, you phrased something that I thought was really interesting. You said it, you call it the art of unconditioning.

[Arnold] (49:25)
Yes.

[Dana] (49:26)
Do you kind of explain a little bit about that phrasing to my listeners?

[Arnold] (49:30)
Well, it’s the essence of what I help people to do is saying, well, people got to do their work, but I make them aware of how they’re being conditioned. And like I said, from growing up as a baby at school, whatever, at the education, basically you’re conditioned to conformity. You’re conditioned to obey. You’re conditioned to look in a certain way. You’re conditioned to… And that is very, I’m very worried about that currently, your condition not to think for yourself. So you’re just conditioned to come up with the right answer or to memorize what the teacher has told you, whatever, but not to think for yourself. And I’m not even talking about crucial questions like who am I, but like, no, well, is the earth flat around? Yeah, it’s round. Okay. Don’t question it. Everything is like what people have told you. But you’re not singing like… But what do I think? So, unconditioning means, is like number one, taking back your power. Number two is like start thinking for yourself. What do I think? I know what other people want me to think, but what do I think?

[Dana] (51:00)
Mm-hmm. Well, and you know, to that point, I think some people have to start at ground zero. It reminds me of a movie, The Runaway Bride with Julia Roberts and Richard Gere. I don’t know if you ever saw that or not, but she was conforming. She would get engaged to a man and whatever he wanted to do, she said that’s what she wanted to do. Right. So then she finally meets this man, Richard Gere, and he said, you don’t even know who you are. I’m not going to marry you until you know who you are. So the the challenge to her was to figure out what kind of eggs that she likes because he went around behind her back and pulled every one of the fiancees that she had been engaged to and said, what kind of eggs does she like? And they would all say a different kind of egg, right? Oh, she loves scrambled eggs. Oh, she loves fried eggs. Oh, she loves eggs Benedict because that’s what she told them. At the end of the day, She didn’t know what kind of eggs that she liked because she was always conforming, conforming to everybody else. And so he said, you have to figure it out. So she literally went to a diner in town, sat at the counter and her friend made her like eight different types of eggs. And she sat there trying one and then another and then another and then another, trying to figure out for the first time ever what kind of eggs that she actually liked. and she had to sit there and taste them all to figure that out. She had to to ground zero to find that.

[Arnold] (52:35)
Yeah, well, actually, what I say as a starting point for people, I’d say three things. And the third thing is be a beginner. That is why you had this beautiful example, which is excellent because you got to figure out not only who I am, what do I like, what do want to do? So every area in life from your health to your relationship to your hobbies to everything is like… You got it. It’s like renewing your life, starting all over again, but not judging it, like just trying, just experimenting. I see life as a big experiment, but we never experiment. So it’s like, I encourage people, it’s like try new things, figure out whether it’s something you like, just like with the eggs, you gotta taste them, you cannot just look at them and think, that is the thing I like. No, just. taste them, that’s true for anything, for a hobby, for a new diet, for a new relationship, for anything. You’ve got to experiment and try, otherwise you don’t know.

[Dana] (53:44)
Yeah. Mm-hmm. That’s it.

[Arnold] (53:52)
And that makes your life interesting because then you become more of an explorer. It’s like, oh, I’m going to try this. Oh, and then from this, come this, this, this, and this. And based upon the, upon these things, you’re like, well, I ended up here and I have no clue.

[Dana] (54:08)
Well, and I could argue that we should never ever stop exploring that we should keep doing it and keep doing it keep doing it. Arnold, I know that my listeners have been fascinated with with what you’ve shared today. Now, I’m trying to make sure that I get the website correct, because if they want to reach you, if they want to know more about you, maybe want to be a client of yours or whatever, I have braingem.com

[Arnold] (54:13)
Absolutely, absolutely.

[Dana] (54:35)
fitness slash master class. Is that where you want them to go or is there another website?

[Arnold] (54:41)
You can forget the slash. So if you just grow to braingym.fitness that is excellent. There they can find anything I can offer and help people making this move from fading into flying.

[Dana] (54:46)
Okay. Wonderful. Okay, Arnold, I appreciate you so much and listeners, you don’t know this, but he has been so patient because I don’t know if it’s Riverside or the internet, but we almost didn’t make this podcast happen because we had to start over. I was turning off my laptop, restarting it, all kinds of funny things and Arnold was very, very patient. So Thank you for your patience today and also for bringing your wisdom and your experience and your transparency with your journey and sharing that with me and also with my listeners. Thank you, Arnold, so much.

[Arnold] (55:29)
grateful to be here. Thank you very much.

[Dana] (55:31)
Listeners, I know you’ve heard Arnold say numerous things today that you’re thinking, oh my gosh, I have a best friend, a coworker, a family member that needs to hear exactly what he has to say. Take this podcast episode, copy and paste it, send it in a text, send it an email, put it on your favorite social media sites so we can grow our Phoenix and Flame community and let people know you are not alone. I hope you’re having a fantastic day and I hope the rest of your day goes great. I’m Dana on Feeding Some Flame.